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From: Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] New Science Building- Things to Look Out For
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 19:45:07 -0500
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: 15fd1bc6d81-c0c-51ba5**At_Symbol_Here**webjas-vab041.srv.aolmail.net
In-Reply-To <7a8b07b1-fc8b-a520-ba00-b618f1430fff**At_Symbol_Here**appstate.edu>
Terrible story. Your school needs a better General Counsel. A lot of that is actionable and should have been either fixed or damages recovered from the architect's and the Engineering firm's insurance. No firm, not even my tiny one-man-band, can get involved in any planning project without holding a minimum of $2 million in a professional liability policy. The things you describe come under errors and omissions and could have been recovered.
Beware of engineering firms, local architects (the architect of record rather than the designer), and contracting firms that are owned by the Brother-in-law of one of the Trustees. That often also is a complicating factor and the reason no one is sued when there clearly is a case.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist
President: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062
-----Original Message-----
From: Samuella B. Sigmann <sigmannsb**At_Symbol_Here**APPSTATE.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Sat, Nov 18, 2017 10:29 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] New Science Building- Things to Look Out For
Our university program manager actually told us it was more
important for the building to look good from the street than to
function well. We ended up with shelled in labs because they ran
out of money as well as pillars in the most inconvenient places in
rooms. We also lost our freight elevator. We can barely get a
chromatography refrigerator in the passenger elevator.
One thing that we do have is a nice solvent/waste/tank storage
room. It is anti-sparking and has a blow out panel and holding
drain.
House nitrogen was a disaster. Because they did not test the system
it leaked too badly from day one to use. All the money that went
into that system was a waste. We have managed to isolate some rooms
and use it that way.
Plan for the future. Faculty tend to be very focused on what they
are doing at the moment and not think about the chemistry that may
be done in the space in the future. There are very few of our
research spaces that are doing the same work they did initially.
That idea of having non fixed assets in the center of the room is
great.
Outlets for equipment that needs to have backup up generator power
(-80s for example). Drains for autoclaves and ice machines.
Someone mentioned commissioning the building. If you think this
could not possibly happen, I can tell you that our building was
not. Occupied in late 90s our ventilation was never balanced for
the first 12 years we were in the building. Our roof has leaked
from day one. Our p-chemist actually had to keep an umbrella over
his server.
Accessible and marked localized shut offs for water and gas.
S-
On 11/18/2017 7:05 AM, Monona Rossol
wrote:
- Beware of the architect and his need for aesthetics
which may value out the occupants needs for the building. If
you get private $ as someone mentioned below, they will be
even more aggressive about what things look like and not how
they function. Case in point, I fought hard for a large
freight elevator that could be locked while taking chemicals
reagents up and move large pieces of equipment up floors.
This got "engineered" out as the larger elevator cut into
the "lines" the architect wanted going up the floors in the
foyer. There was nothing about function, this was strictly
aesthetic.
In theater we would say this what would happen if we were
foolish enough to put the Set Designer in charge of the whole
show.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist
President: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062
-----Original
Message-----
From: Vivian L. Longacre
<vlongacr**At_Symbol_Here**CALPOLY.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L
<DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Sat, Nov 18, 2017 4:00 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] New Science Building- Things to Look
Out For
We completed a six story science building
(Chem/Biochem, Physics, Soil Science) 4 years ago. At
the time I was a technician for Chem/Biochem, now in
EH&S for the campus. I was lucky enough to be
included on the building committee and my opinions
were valued. Some of my thoughts and struggles on
the process:
- Involve the technical staff. They work in the
building, do maintenance on the safety and lab
equipment and know what works.
- We used a lab planner along with the architects
in the initial design which helped, but there is still
a large amount the lab planners do NOT know
about actually working in a lab.
- Beware of the architect and his need for
aesthetics which may value out the occupants needs for
the building. If you get private $ as someone
mentioned below, they will be even more aggressive
about what things look like and not how they
function. Case in point, I fought hard for a large
freight elevator that could be locked while taking
chemicals reagents up and move large pieces of
equipment up floors. This got "engineered" out as the
larger elevator cut into the "lines" the architect
wanted going up the floors in the foyer. There was
nothing about function, this was strictly aesthetic.
- Be wary of over engineering of utilities and
spaces. The lab planner and architect designed a
large room for a specialized deionization system to
feed the building. This seemed way over kill to me
and also something difficult to maintain as a
technician. Another faculty member and I asked for
other institutions that had this DI system installed
and got on the phone to talk about their system and
were quickly told it had been a nightmare to maintain
from the get go. We were able to get this taken out.
Best of luck!
Vivian
Vivian Longacre
Safety
Training Specialist, RSO
Environmental Health
& Safety
Cal Poly
San Luis Obispo,
California
Direct 805.756.6628
Hi All,
Once you're done hashing out all
the building design issues, don't forget about the
construction side of it.
Someone needs to keep an eye on the
lowest bidder who is building it.
We've run into a couple situations
where something was obviously wrong and the guys
doing the work didn't want to even ask about it
because =E2=80=98That's what's on the blueprint.'
(Don't worry, we got them to move
the transformer out from directly in front of a
door)
Also, don't believe them when they
say they've tested something like monitoring
systems.
Make sure equipment and HVAC units
are installed correctly and no shortcuts have been
taken.
-Brady
Perfect companion piece to read. And
you shouldn't have to "fight" for any of this.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A.,
Industrial Hygienist
President: Arts, Crafts &
Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829,
IATSE
New York, NY 10012
212-777-0062
=B7
Appropriately sized spaces
to accommodate students with disabilities
(and service dogs or signers for hearing
impaired students)
=B7
Be prepared to fight for
drains for your safety showers
=B7
Ample storage space away
from the benchtops for coats, backpacks,
purses, etc.
=B7
Generous fume hood/bench
space for each student
=B7
Do you require
balance/instrument rooms that are separate
from the labs?
=B7
Think about what you need
in terms of data ports, AV equipment, and
large monitors and their placement within
the rooms
=B7
A desk up front for your TA
and design the labs so that the TA has a
clear line of sight to all of the
students, if possible
=B7
Intercom system needed?
=B7
What do you need for the
prep room and stockroom? Storage systems,
benches, fume hoods, etc.
=B7
Fire suppression systems =E2=80"
the project manager will require your full
chemical inventory for this
=B7
Equipment that will require
special electrical outlets
=B7
Placement of white
boards/blackboards in the labs
=B7
Dispensing hoods for
experimental work and also for the haz
waste containers in the labs
Just a few thoughts on a
Friday. Feel free to contact me directly
if you have additional questions. As you
can tell, we went through this a few years
ago to totally renovate some labs on the
Evansdale campus.
Eberly College of Arts and
Sciences
DCHAS Fellow - American
Chemical Society
We're in the
planning process for a new science
building (we're a two-year community
college with a strong STEM reputation
and a very small informal undergrad
research program). Does anyone have
any lessons learned or other
recommendations as we start working
with the architects when it comes to
planning out our chemistry labs?
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We, the willing,
led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the
ungrateful. We have done
so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified
to do everything
with nothing. Teresa
Arnold
paraphrased from Konstantin
Josef Jire=C4=8Dek (1854 - 1918)
Samuella B. Sigmann, MS, NRCC-CHO
Senior
Lecturer/Safety Committee
Chair/Director of Stockroom
A. R.
Smith Department of Chemistry
Appalachian
State University
525
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NC 28608
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