On Monday, August 17, 2020, 9:24 AM, Ken Kretchman <kwkretch**At_Symbol_Here**NCSU.EDU> wrote:

Hi Neal

I "almost" agree.  I am not sure Jim said a specific "no" and I think some of these decisions need to go beyond the PI, who may or may not be able (in the opinion of

EHS, PI mgt, and site mgt for something of this nature) to be able to consistently handle the necessary precautions and controls.

I do agree that providing the PI with what needs to be done to achieve the mission safely is the best way to go.

thanks

Ken

Ken Kretchman, CIH, CSP   Director, Environmental Health and Safety

NC State University / Box 8007 / 2620 Wolf Village Way / Raleigh North Carolina 27695-8007

Email: Ken_Kretchman**At_Symbol_Here**ncsu.edu / Phone: (919).515.6860 / Fax: (919).515.6307

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 9:46 PM NEAL LANGERMAN <neal**At_Symbol_Here**chemical-safety.com> wrote:

Jim 

While I agree that proper and safe handling of nickel carbonyl is expensive I must caution all that the job of EHS is to present how to do the job safely. It is not to decide the cost benefit ratio. That is the responsibility of the PI. We routinely work with extremely toxic chemicals, arsine for example. As Eugene pointed out, there is not a real time detection system, so the suite of controls offered to the PI is more complicated. 

In summary, our job does not include "NO". 

NEAL 

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On Sun, Aug 16, 2020, 17:07 James Keating <james.k.keating**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:

RE: Tetra nickel carbonyl

"Merely..."very difficult to achieve any other way" does not seem to be enough to justify using Nickel Carnonyl in a process system.

Review of the SDS should reveal the extreme exposure risk associated with this compound.

In addition to toxicity there is the fire and explosion risk as well as the s.g. of the vapor 6 times air.

The hazards inherent in this compound even require careful process controls using steel piping in systems that could possibly generate Nickel Carbonyl resulting from the kinetic and thermodynamic parameters in process  systems including certain piping materials containing the flow of chemicals capable combining to create tetra nickel Carbonyl.

The cost of containing this compound and protecting personnel from exposure would, in my opinion, exceed the cost of available alternatives. 

Jim Keating 

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 4:32 PM davivid <davivid**At_Symbol_Here**well.com> wrote:

I have a client in California who is considering using a process that
uses nickel carbonyl. I have made them aware of the extremely toxic
nature of this compound. The only reason they are considering it is that
it solves a problem that would be very difficult to achieve any other
way. My question to the community is this: what, if any, specific
regulations are there regarding the use of this compound?

Thank you

Dave Lane
Principal
Clavis Technology Development

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