From: Lucy Dillman <lucydillman**At_Symbol_Here**COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Workplace and Laboratory Attire
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:43:58 -0700
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: 9F0888AE438C4E6B877FB1F78E63AD5E**At_Symbol_Here**LucyPC
In-Reply-To <731700108A7439498BE12EC6F8A2585AA5AEB21B**At_Symbol_Here**EXCHANGE10.campus.pomona.edu>


I agree, it is harsh on women.  I have seen (in industry and academia) all sorts of inappropriate dress for a lab on both women and men.  Shorts, open shoes, sandals, short skirts, crop tops, and such.  When I was a young person, women would not go to work wearing slacks or jeans, and I have to say, the skirts did not cover the whole leg and nylons are no protection.  There is always some reason for noncompliance with the lab dress code:  it's too hot, it's not comfortable, the safety glasses (or goggles) give me a headache, I have to go to (something) after I get done in the lab, and I need to wear this short skirt and floppy top, pregnant, hot flashes, doesn't fit right, shoes hurt my feet, can't afford it...Then there is the custom of (especially women's) fashions changing all the time. 
 
As for the observation that the young women dress like tarts:  I've had this conversation with young women working in my labs over the years, that to be taken seriously they can't just dress however they feel like it.  They say it isn't fair, and I said it wasn't fair when I was their age, but when you've been around awhile you figure out that life isn't fair.  When you put it down in black and white or say it out loud it sounds outrageous, but in any case, in terms of working in a lab, you have to wear clothes that are appropriate to keep you safe. 
 
I've also heard people say, if I'm wearing shorts and sandals and break a flask of something noxious, cut my foot and step in the stuff or have it splashed in my eyes when I'm not wearing safety goggles, then it is a chance I will take.  They aren't thinking of the consequences of that for the institution or the reality of what could happen to them.  And here, I have to say, it isn't only the youngsters who are doing this. 
 
Oh well, I'm preaching to the crowd.  Thanks for all the good input.
 
Lucy
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Phan
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Workplace and Laboratory Attire

I would caution anyone forwarding this email to students.  Some of my colleagues think that email tone seemed very harsh, especially toward women.  What do you think?

 

Wayne

 

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Sheila
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:35 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Workplace and Laboratory Attire

 

Patricia,

May I use the following version of your note with our students?

I could remove the company name, but I think it has more force with a real company name attached.

Sheila

 

_________________________________

Sheila Kennedy, C.H.O.

Safety Coordinator | Teaching Laboratories

UCSD Chemistry & Biochemistry |MC 0303

s1kennedy**At_Symbol_Here**ucsd.edu | http://www-chem.ucsd.edu

Office: (858) 534-0221 | Fax: (858) 534-7687
_________________________________

 



From the safety desk....

A colleague wrote recently about her new employees:

All,

I work for a company that accepts college students as  paid summer interns and also as 6-month term Co-Ops.   The students we accept are majors in Chemistry, Chemical Engineering and Biology.   They are sophomore and junior level students. 

 

We are having problems with the attire of many of the young ladies who come to us.  The young men have so far not presented any problems.  The problems are these:

1.       The student has accepted an internship or Co-Op with us that involves working in chemistry laboratory.  I am sure they have all taken a college level chemistry class, probably several.  Yet they show up on the first day with cloth sneakers, sandals, leggings that expose half their bare leg, etc.  When told that this is not proper lab attire, they are confused and reply that they have nothing of the sort we consider proper.  We require pants (or a skirt ) that covers the entire leg and a shoe that covers their entire foot and is leather or fake leather.  We even buy them an appropriate shoe, they just have to have something that will get them by for the 5 or 6 days it takes for the company-provided shoe to come in.  It is sometimes a real struggle - they don't have a shoe that will get them by, they have absolutely no appropriate pants (or so they say), when the ordered shoe comes in they for some reason "forget" to wear it into the lab, I could go on and on. 

2.       Attire that is simply not appropriate for the business environment.  Very short skirts, overly sheer tops, crop tops that expose the belly, extremely high heels, etc.  A Human Resources colleague of mine describes it as "hooker attire".  Maybe a little exaggerated, but you get the idea.  Our company has on at least one occasion sent an intern home to change clothing, and there are many other instances where we SHOULD have sent someone home.

 

These young ladies are majoring in a hard subjects and get good grades or we would not accept them as interns or Co-Ops.  I do not think they realize how bad they make themselves look when employers have to speak with them about their attire.  I also think they do not realize how hard previous generations of women have fought for women to be taken seriously in the workplace.  Their dress does not advance that cause.

 

I am going to suggest that my company send out information to potential interns on dress requirements especially for chemical laboratories.  Academic institutions can certainly help provide guidance on this too.  I think parents used to do this, but I believe that is over.    

 

Thank you for listening.  Yes, I am old and growing increasingly grumpy.  And I wear slip-resistant shoes that cover my entire foot and look rather dorky because I choose to work in a chemistry laboratory.   

 

Certified Chemical Hygiene Officer (CCHO)

Safety and Chemical Hygiene Specialist

West Pharmaceutical Services

Find West on Twitter and LinkedIn.



"Peifer, Patricia" <Patricia.Peifer**At_Symbol_Here**WESTPHARMA..COM> wrote:
All,

 I work for a company that accepts college students as  paid summer interns and also as 6-month term Co-Ops.   The students we accept are majors in Chemistry, Chemical Engineering and Biology.   They are sophomore and junior level students. 

 

We are having problems with the attire of many of the young ladies who come to us.  The young men have so far not presented any problems.  The problems are these:

1.       The student has accepted an internship or Co-Op with us that involves working in chemistry laboratory.  I am sure they have all taken a college level chemistry class, probably several.  Yet they show up on the first day with cloth sneakers, sandals, leggings that expose half their bare leg, etc.  When told that this is not proper lab attire, they are confused and reply that they have nothing of the sort we consider proper.  We require pants (or a skirt ) that covers the entire leg and a shoe that covers their entire foot and is leather or fake leather.  We even buy them an appropriate shoe, they just have to have something that will get them by for the 5 or 6 days it takes for the company-provided shoe to come in.  It is sometimes a real struggle - they don't have a shoe that will get them by, they have absolutely no appropriate pants (or so they say), when the ordered shoe comes in they for some reason "forget" to wear it into the lab, I could go on and on. 

2.       Attire that is simply not appropriate for the business environment.  Very short skirts, overly sheer tops, crop tops that expose the belly, extremely high heels, etc.  A Human Resources colleague of mine describes it as "hooker attire".  Maybe a little exaggerated, but you get the idea.  Our company has on at least one occasion sent an intern home to change clothing, and there are many other instances where we SHOULD have sent someone home.

 

These young ladies are majoring in a hard subjects and get good grades or we would not accept them as interns or Co-Ops.  I do not think they realize how bad they make themselves look when employers have to speak with them about their attire.  I also think they do not realize how hard previous generations of women have fought for women to be taken seriously in the workplace.  Their dress does not advance that cause.

 

I am going to suggest that my company send out information to potential interns on dress requirements especially for chemical laboratories.  Academic institutions can certainly help provide guidance on this too.  I think parents used to do this, but I believe that is over.    

 

Thank you for listening.  Yes, I am old and growing increasingly grumpy.  And I wear slip-resistant shoes that cover my entire foot and look rather dorky because I choose to work in a chemistry laboratory.   

 

Pat Peifer, CCHO

Safety and Chemical Hygiene Specialist

 

Find West on Twitter and LinkedIn.


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