Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:56:21 +0100
Reply-To: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Pierre Rouzaud <p.rouzaud**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS
In-Reply-To: <012801cacba4$c5090c20$4f1b2460$**At_Symbol_Here**net>

in past time students never wear gloves,now they do'nt want to wear gloves but the managers want them to wear gloves because they are afraid with accidents and court!it is the principe of caution!They do'nt have to touch powders or solids which can give allergie or dermic reactions,it's differen t with glasses that protect them from projections or accidents they can't preview Doctor ROUZAUD Toxicologist 2010/3/24 Michael Hurwitz > I=92m going to take a middle of the road stance here. I=92ve seen the =93PhD. > Chemist who just graduated and forgets to wear gloves and goggles in the > lab.=94 He also eats in the lab if I=92m not looking. > > > > The reason new chemists are told to wear gloves often (even for water lab > work) is that they need to form the habit of using PPE. When they get to > stage in which PPE is their responsibility, they should be trained to ask > =93Which PPE do I need?=94 > > > > As for measuring water, remember PPE is not only to protect you from the > sample, but to protest the sample from you. If you =93pollute=94 the > experiment, you change the results. > > > > If budgetary restraints are the concern, I would make sure students bring > gloves, but leave it up to them to determine whether gloves are necessary . > If they show up without any PPE, they can=92t very well consider what is > necessary. Further, if they determine that gloves are not necessary, the y > should be able to defend that conclusion. > > > > Goggles however, are about habit. There is very rarely a good reason Not > to wear them. > > > > This is just how I run my lab, and how I think about these things. My go al > is to install a good PPE habit, not just impose rules. Rules without the > habit are useless anyway. > > > > Cheers, > > Mike > > > > > > *From:* DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] *On Behalf > Of *Dr. Jay A. Young > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:19 PM > > *To:* DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS > > > > Thank goodness for at least one person who knows how and when to use glov es > properly. Too many so-called safety experts seem to think that when > handling chemicals it is necessary to wear some kind of gloves. > > > > Gloves are too clumsy to wear unless their use is absolutely necessary. > > > > Kay Calhoun is EXACTLY RIGHT, bless your heart, Kay. > > > > Jay Young > > ************************ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Rita Kay Calhoun > > *To:* DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU > > *Sent:* Monday, March 08, 2010 2:20 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS > > > > Would one of you please explain to me the dermal hazard > associated with determining the volume of a drop of water? Or perhaps th e > density of a saline solution? As I said in my original response there is > guidance given to the students in their risk assessment. And if their > assessment is inadequate, there is =93You will wear gloves, period=94. W hen > students understand, they are much more likely to comply. When they see the > rules as simply something People-in-Authority impose because they=92re in > authority and want control, the students try to get away with not > complying. I do teach your children safety. I also try to teach them to > think. The most important safety rule you can learn is to think. > Everything else flows from that. > > > > Kay Calhoun > > > > > > > > *From:* DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] *On Behalf > Of *Moorefield, Mubetcel > *Sent:* Monday, March 08, 2010 7:44 AM > *To:* DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU > *Subject:* Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS > > > > I am surprised to see there is even a discussion of whether to ask the > students to wear gloves or not. That is probably why even the chemists w ho > graduate with PhD in chemistry have hard time following those simple > safety rules when they get a job in the industry. > > > > As teaching profession, I would expect you to teach my child how to be sa fe > in a lab as well as how to set up a reaction. It should be part of the > teaching curriculum. I am pretty sure you are teaching them not to pour > hazardous chemicals down the drain so the environment doesn't get hurt. Why > would you question if it is necessary to teach them not to hurt > themselves? Discussion of recovering the cost should be a separate issue . > > > > Mubetcel > > > > THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO > WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL, > PROPRIETARY AND MAY FURTHER CONSTITUTE NON-PUBLIC INFORMATION. If the rea der > of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified th at > any use of the information disclosed herein, or any dissemination, > distribution, forwarding or copying of this communication is strictly > prohibited. Such restrictions also apply to any employee or agent > responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient. If you > have received this communication in error, please notify the sender > immediately by e-mail or telephone, and delete the original message > immediately. For more information, please visit . Thank > you > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] *On Behalf > Of *Kennedy, Sheila > *Sent:* Friday, March 05, 2010 6:32 PM > *To:* DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU > *Subject:* [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS > > As the staff of the Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Labs, we have been > asked to propose ideas for saving money, as budgets are only getting tigh ter > over the next few years. One idea proposed is that we stop providing glov es > ad lib. to students, but have them buy & bring their own. We currently > supply either nitrile or PVC examination (thin, single-use) gloves in our > labs. > > Do you provide/require gloves for student labs? > > > > *Sheila * > > -- > Sheila M. Kennedy, CHO > Safety Coordinator > Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Laboratories > University of California, San Diego > (858) 534-0221 > > > >

in past time students never wear gloves,now they do'nt want to wear glo ves but the managers want them to wear gloves because they are afraid=A0 wi th accidents and court!it is the principe of caution!They do'nt have to touch powders or solids which can give allergie or dermic reactions,it' ;s different with glasses that protect them from projections or accidents t hey can't preview
Doctor ROUZAUD
Toxicologist

2010/3/24 Michael Hurwitz <Tesl a**At_Symbol_Here**lmi.net>

I=92m going to take a middle of the road stance here.=A0 I=92ve seen the =93PhD. Chemist who just graduated and forgets to wear gloves and goggles in the lab.=94=A0 He also eats in the lab if I=92m not looking.

=A0< /p>

The reason new chemists are told to wear gloves often (even for water lab work) is that they need to form th e habit of using PPE.=A0 When they get to stage in which PPE is their respons ibility, they should be trained to ask =93Which PPE do I need?=94

=A0< /p>

As for meas uring water, remember PPE is not only to protect you from the sample, but to protest the sample f rom you.=A0 If you =93pollute=94 the experiment, you change the results.

=A0< /p>

If budgetar y restraints are the concern, I would make sure students bring gloves, but leave it up to them t o determine whether gloves are necessary.=A0 If they show up without any PPE, they can=92t very well consider what is necessary.=A0 Further, if they determine that gloves are not necessary, they should be able to defend that conclusion.

=A0< /p>

Goggles how ever, are about habit.=A0 There is very rarely a good reason Not to wear them.

=A0< /p>

This is jus t how I run my lab, and how I think about these things.=A0 My goal is to install a good PPE habit, not just impose rules.=A0 Rules without the habit are useless anyway .

=A0< /p>

Cheers,

Mike

=A0< /p>

=A0< /p>

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHA S-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of Dr. Jay A. Young
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:19 PM

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVE S IN STUDENT LABS

=A0

Thank goodness for at least one person who knows how and when to use gloves properly.=A0 Too many so-called safety experts seem to think that when handling chemicals it is necessary to wear some kind of gloves.

=A0

Gloves are too clumsy to wear unless their use is absolutely necessary.

=A0

Kay Calhoun is EXACTLY RIGHT, bless your heart, Kay.

=A0

Jay Young

************************

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:20 PM

Subject:< /b> Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS

=A0

=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Would one of you please explain to me the dermal hazard associated with determining the volume of a drop of water?=A0 Or perhaps the density of a saline solution?=A0 As I said in my original response there is guidance given to the students in their risk assessment.=A0 And if their assessment is inadequate, there is =93You will wear gloves, period=94.=A0 When students understand, they are much more likely to comply.=A0 When they see the rules as simply something People-in-Authority impose because they=92re in authority and want control, the students try to get away with not complying.=A0 I do teach your children safety.=A0 I also try to teach them to think.=A0 The most important safety rule you can learn is to think.=A0 Everything else flows from that.

=A0< /p>

Kay Calhoun

=A0< /p>

=A0< /p>

=A0< /p>

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHA S-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of Moorefield, Mubetcel
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:44 AM
To: DCHAS- L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS

=A0

I am s urprised to see there is even a discussion of whether to ask the students to wear gloves or not.=A0 That is probably why even the chemists who graduate with PhD in chemistry have hard time following=A0thos e simple safety=A0rules when they get a job in the industry.

=A0

As tea ching profession, I would expect you to teach my child how to be safe in a lab as well as how to set up a reaction.=A0 It should be part of the teaching curriculum.=A0 I am pretty sure you are teaching them not t o pour hazardous chemicals down the drain so the environment doesn't get hurt.=A0 Why would you question if it=A0 is necessary to teach them not to hurt themselves?=A0 Discussion of recovering the cost should be a separate issue.

=A0

Mubetc el

=A0

THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL, PROPRIETARY AND MAY FURTHER CONSTITUTE NON-PUBLIC INFORMATION . If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information disclosed herein, or any dissemination, distribution, forwarding or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.=A0 Such restrictions also apply to any employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immedia tely by e-mail or telephone, and delete the original message immediately. For mo re information, please visit <ww w.steris.com>. Thank you

=A0

=A0


From: DCHAS-L Di scussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**l ist.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Sheila
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 6:32 PM
To: DCHAS- L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] GLOVES IN STUDENT LABS

As the staff of the Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Labs, we have been asked to propose ideas for saving money, as bud gets are only getting tighter over the next few years. One idea proposed is that we stop providing gloves ad lib. to students, but have them buy & bring th eir own. We currently supply either nitrile or PVC examination (thin, single-us e) gloves in our labs.

Do you provide/require gloves for student labs?

=A0

Sheila

--
Sheila M. Kennedy, CHO
Safety Coordinator
Chemistry & Biochemistry Teaching Laboratories
University of California, San Diego
(858) 534-0221

=A0


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